Yes to Biden!  Absolutely.

If this accomplishes nothing more than smoothing down tep's feathers it will be worth it.

Who?

Biggest drawback to Biden -- must I reiterate that he would be my first choice to _be_ president, assuming he did not also have to _campaign_ for president -- is that he would be a significant albatross in any second term. He's too old to be taken seriously as a natural successor, and in the post-Twenty-Second-Amendment presidency, a president in his second term relies on the threat of an effective "third term" under his VP to maintain some semblance of authority within his own party. Without such a natural successor in the vice presidency, a president becomes a lame duck the moment he wins reelection. And we've seen since late 2004 just how little the country can afford a four-year lame duckancy, even from an already disastrous failure of a president.

So as long as Obama is willing to dump Biden should he have the chance to run for reelection in 2012, then Biden is a good choice. Medium-to-high potential upside, but a very real, if small, chance for a high potential downside. The best of the available "safe" picks.

Joe Biden is good news for McCain.  Joe's very likely to say some stupid stuff over the next two and a half months.

Yo!

"Tony Blinken" sounds suspiciously like "teplukin" to me.  Conspiracy?  You decide.

Only a Democrat would worry about how the perception of a VP will play 4 years from now, when the current election is 80 days away.

If he is a strong VP candidate now that is ALL that matters.  Worry about 4 years 4 years from now.

"Just win baby"  Al Davis

At his worst, Biden won't have as many gaffes in a month as McCain has in a week. He's got foreign policy cred and a down-to-earth manner. he can be politically incorrect.

In short, he's a very good compliment indeed to Obama.

Plus, I bet it makes Tep a little more sanguine than he has been, which is a very good thing!!!

This was posted below at the end of a thread as it went defunct, hope it is not inappropriate to put it here as I would be interested to hear reactions:

It seems to me that neither the schedule of speakers for the Democratic convention nor Senator Obama's public schedule for the days leading up to the convention provide even a penumbra of an emanation of a clue as to whose name is soon going to be painted on that big airplane.

This suggests to me that Veepstakes, Version D.08, will conclude in one of two possible ways.

Perhaps, the vice presidential nominee is going to be one of the individuals mentioned by the mentioners as occupying one spot or another on that much discussed, if never really seen, "short list".  If that is the case, the convention schedule will be juggled a bit; and I would bet that the Democratic ticket does well politically and then governs well as each of the folks presumed to be on the short list have significant political and intellectual assets.  It is comforting that, while the Bushes seemed to pull their veep nominees off the "short bus" Senator Obama's will probably emerge from a short but very strong list.

It is possible, of course, that the list that has been discussed is not the list that exists.  Both Senator Obama's travels during the next several days and the convention schedule as announced would make perfect sense if the nominee is going to be someone other than those who have been most prominently mentioned.

 One journalist suggests the possibility of Senator Clinton and explains the elaborate misdirection as necessary to prevent a leak of the type that nearly every high level Clinton campaign staffer seemed to excel at by the end of the primary season.  To me, the likelihood of a surprise of that magnitude seems a bit remote, especially given the former President’s seeming inability to control his petulance.

 A contributor to one of the blogs on this site suggests the possibility of Senator Sam Nunn given the mention he got in church over the weekend and the widespread respect on national security matters he earned during his Senate service and thereafter.  Nunn, however, apparently has what some might call rather old-fashioned ideas about equality and human rights which could result in a significant amount of dissension on convention floor.

 If there is going to be a surprise, the name of another individual comes to my mind; and as the 6 or 8 people who actually know aren’t talking and just about everybody else who’s sentient is, well, here’s the name:  Senator Bill Bradley.  Obviously, Bradley has a reputation for intellect, rectitude and seriousness that would lead many to characterize him as well-qualified to serve.  Yet a few other considerations are what lead me to think of him as a dark horse possibility.  First, both Bradley and Craig Robinson (Michelle’s brother) played on athletic teams for the legendary coach Pete Carril, a man who applied a strategic and tactical brilliance to the game of basketball and had a quality of character that made him revered by nearly every person he ever coached and created a strong, cross-generational bond among his players.  Second, Anita Dunn, who currently serves as a senior advisor to the Obama campaign, served in Bradley’s Senate office for many years as Communications and Political Director and then Chief of Staff and was the senior strategist for Bradley’s 2000 campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination.  As seems the case with most who come in contact with Bradley, Dunn remains fiercely loyal to, and admiring of, him.  Third, Bradley was born in, and still has significant family ties to, Missouri.  Fourth and finally, Bradley has, due in some part to his earlier NBA career, incredibly strong polling numbers with white men of a certain age, not the demographic cohort one might expect to be this cycle’s “soccer moms” but a group that, if its vote is more evenly divided than in 2000 or 2004, might provide an unexpected path to 270 electoral votes.

Now, there probably isn’t going to be a surprise and all of this speculation will have been interesting and a bit of fun but not much more.  If there is going to be a surprise, however, I’d bet a dollar on “Dollar Bill.”

Biden will cut up the opposition. And Obama desperately needs someone to bring a knife to this fight.

You wish Chan.

This would be outstanding.  Just, for God's sake. keep the man away from chairing any more hearings.  Cohn, you forgot his lovely performance kissing Alberto Gonzo's rump when he was supposed to be vetting him for AG.  Biden's exact words to Gonzo: " I love ya man!"  This was also in the middle of Kerry's Presidential campaign.  Also, we mostly have Edward Kennedy to thank for nuking that nutjob Bork, even Bork says so.

Anyway, way too much is made of Biden's gaffes - the flip side is that he's a terrific media jouster in attacking the opposition.  He flatlined yet another Republican nutjob, Guiliani, with one masterful quip.  He's got Catholic cred, blue collar cred and although I am second to no one in loathing that hateful Bankrpucy Bill, the banks do sort of own Biden, being from Delaware.

Go Joe, time to suit up and get that quip machine rolling.  I don't think there is a thing anyone can do about Putin/Russia/Georgia except bluster and chest pound, but you have cred doing so.  Just watch the gaffes please.  

Miceelf, you said "At his worst, Biden won't have as many gaffes in a month as McCain has in a week."  Agreed.  But the meme around Biden is that he is a "gaffe-machine", and McCain isn't, so the media will play up on that as much as they can.   Still, I love the pick.  Obama/Biden is a beautiful ticket, I think.  This will also be great if Mac picks Mitt.  Can you even imagine how much Uncle Joe would desroy him in a debate?  I am getting giddy just thinking about it.

I've never really gotten the collective TNR crush on Biden. I mean - for one - didnt he forever brandish his unique plan to just cut Iraq up into three separate countries? (Please tell me I'm wrong).

Wont McCain have a field day with that? And for once - justifiably. I mean, that just doesnt make a politician seem serious. (Again, if I'm mistaken, correct me - but if I'm not, phooey.)

If it's Biden, then I'm writing a nice fat check to the Obama campaign the minute it's official.

Wandrey - from your lips to Obama's ears.

jobeek- I believe Biden advocated a "federalist" system, where Iraq would be split into three quasi-independent states under a weak central government.  It's a plan with some problems (relocating ethnic groups to "their" partition?!  Good God that would be ugly), but so are ALL plans for Iraq's future.  I don't see why it should be dismissed prima facie.  

Yeah, what I also like about Biden is he uses that "above your paygrade" bureaucratic phrase that Obama does.  Except in a really insulting way.

He's a son of a bitch.  But not a real bright one.

Not someone you'd want in the Oval Office.

What- Chan, the republican, doesn't want a not real bright sonofabitch in the oval office? Where have you been for the last 7 years?

Biden also happens to be the guy my wife (not at all a political animal, barely follows things) was rooting for. Obama was her SECOND choise. I suspect she's not alone among "low information voters" in basically liking him because he speaks English.

I agree with Chan that we don't want sons of bitches, nor "not real bright" people, in the White House.

Which is why I never wanted George W. Bush or Dick Cheney to get anywhere near the White House.

As to Biden, since the late 1980s he has established a consistent record as the brightest analyst of American foreign policy at work in Washington. Not all of his ideas have been fantastic winners, but on almost every issue he's been months or years ahead of the rest of Washington and he's proposed better policies than have been followed by administrations of either party. When I worked on the Hill a while back, Biden's policy speeches were some of the only ones that people on other staffs would bother to print out and read. Worth looking in the Congressional Record; he gave a several-part address on U.S. policy after the Cold War sometime around 1991 that was about the most perceptive policy analysis I heard at the start of that wasted decade.

Biden is, simply, the smartest strategic thinker in Washington today. He's also a serious student of the Constitution. His areas of expertise are perfectly suited to the challenges America faces right now.

(And the great thing is that Biden's FP instincts and constitutional approach are almost exactly what small-c conservatives would have advocated before kowtowing to the GOP became the test of conservative membership. When conservatives belittle Biden on foreign policy or the Constitution, they're really stabbing their own former intellectual integrity in the back.)

Chan - since when does a Republican give the first hoot about intelligence in the oval office?!  Hilarious.

Micelf, you are so right about the media pass given to Air-head John.  Also, you've mentioned your wise wife before and I'm relieved she's in to Smokin' Joe, she's always right.  

The only constants in life: death, taxes, never invade Russia in the winter, never board and empty subway train at rush hour and MSM memes never die: Biden is a gaffe machine, John McCain is a maverick, Democratic nominees are nuisanced.  Sigh.

I'd be glad to have someone named Joe on the ticket.  Barack/Joe - you get the idea.

Remind me why his plagiarism isn't a complete deal breaker? I assumed during the primary season that no one talked about it because they figured, hey, he has no chance anyway, why be mean? But if he's the VP, won't this be a huge issue? Will Fox News talk about anything else for the next few months?

Consider the Vice Presidential oeuvre:

"Nattering nabobs of negativism!"

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history!"

"Go fuck yourself."

"I have ridden the mighty moon-worm!"

"Sock it to ME?"

And, of course, the all-time leader, said by a VP about the VPency, the job is "not worth a bucket of warm piss!"

Biden seems tailor-made for the job.

The putative plagarism was very overblown when it happened. He referred to someone else's words as he had done numerous times only this time failed to credit the source, as he had always done. It was a minor slip.

And I would love for the McCain campaign to try to go there, given McCain's apparent Solzhenitsyn rip-off.

Finally, plagiarism seems like it's fading as something voters care about- remember how well "change you can xerox" went over in the primaries???

Wasn't the plagarism kerfluffle about 20 years ago?  Huh, what else was about 20 years ago???  Oh yeah that whole "Keating 5" kerfluffle!  Plagarism...Corruption, Plagarism...Corruption?? Which one is worse?  Huh...

I thought Biden had by far the best moment in the primary debates in this answer on the YouTube debate:

www.youtube.com/watch

dechanta asks:

-- Remind me why his plagiarism isn't a complete deal breaker?

Well one reason is that his plagiarism has nothing whatsoever to do with his fitness to be Vice-President, or even President. After all, if we viewed lying - which I view as far worse than plagiarism - as an impediment then the cast of eligible candidates would be pretty thin.

The Obama-Biden dynamics would be strange, but again strangely like JFK-LBJ.  A sort of reversal of polarity that could well invite the Republicans into a number of missteps.

In the now long-forgotten (?) TNR Veep nomination competition, I cast for Wes Clark.  Whatever.

Thanks ndmackenzie - Biden at his Bidenish best.

tried to post this morning, but server timed out.

I agree, Biden works. I also think that his direct and blunt style really makes him an uneasy fit for Secretary of State, which position I believe he has been eyeing since at least Kerry's run. Enthusiastic, optimistic, easygoing, confident VP attack dog really fits him much better.

But I also think that besides easing the minds of various Beltway factions, he's got one other overlooked quality: he's well known among the Dem rank and file, and lots of people like him. He's been serving his country and his party for so long that I think he'll be seen as highly deserving of the opportunity to serve in this elevated capacity. I think if it happens, the goodwill factor after the announcement and straight through the convention will be quite strong, and will surprise most of the pundits.

I've been almost praying for Biden. He was my first choice 4 president. He'd be great digging at Mccain I'm sure after all this time in the senate with johnny boy,he has stories to tell.

Now is when this thing could get good.

Quite apart from being vastly better qualified, Biden is the only one to look the part apart from Hillary Clinton. Evan Bayh - about as much presence as Dan Quayle; Tim Kaine - frankly not nice to look at; Kathleen Sebelius - that hair; in that portion of the electorate that has barely registered the fundamentals of this election yet, the impression created by a VP is going to be vastly more important than the substance.

I too am a massive Biden fan.  Let Fightin' Joe at 'em!!  Could you imagine a Biden-Leiberman V-P debate?  Priceless...

Biden: YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES!   Get it?

Have you ever heard Biden talk about foreign affairs on the Sunday morning network shows?  He is the best-informed, most experienced, most articulate leader our nation has on these issues.  If he is the VP choice, my respect for Obama will greatly increase, as will the Democrats' chance for victory.  Also, the VP debate will be the most watchable event  of the campaign season.  Biden will wipe up the floor with whoever McCain selects as his running mate.

I have been on Joe's bandwagon for VP from the start.  Dems rarely take my advice, but I think Biden will give the Chosen One some f-p cred at least.

BTW, is McCain an idiot, too?  Cuz if y'all lose to him, I expect mass suicides on these boards.  Figuratively, of course.

Yes, but what about Biden's HAIR?

Hey butchie - McCain isn't an idiot, he's funny which is impossible if you are an idiot.  McCain also has heart, stamina and courage, which I admire.  And that mother?  She's the best thing about McCain, much smarter, classier and wiser than her son will ever be.

I do think he's an airhead though - not the sharpest tool in the shed, but then you Republicans tend to like that in a candidate (snap).  

Maybe at some point he'll know something about politics and give up horror shows like Phil Gramm and Alan Greenspan.  I won't hold my breath.

Biden has a great but largeley invisible (for now) liability with his advocacy of the VAWA. There is a vocal but growing groundswell among men who view this law as profoundly biased against men, driven by feminist ideology, and unconstitutional since many of its applications, in practice, presume men guilty until proven innocent. The bill should be something like "The Domestic Violence Act" with equal protection for both men and women.

The majority of men do not vote for Democrats. This is one of the reasons, and BIden will make things worse.

After endless rumination and media speculation, Barack Obama’s decision on a running mate is nigh. Nigh! Just how nigh, nobody is quite sure.

My own view is that because of Biden's strengths he'd probably actually serve better in another capacity -- National security, State, defense -- but that as a political decision it would be pretty brilliant, and in the last generation we have reached a point where the VP really does seem to serve as more than a container for warm piss given the active nature of Gore and, God help us, Shooty McPatronize.

dcat

True, Biden is not without virtues - but you do take the risk he'll single-handedly sink your campaign with his mouth.  That risk is necessary now that it appears Obama is being more widely regarded as the lightweight he is.

On the other side of the coin, if you're Obama you'd have a mean, mouthy long-time Washington "insider" at your side as you peddle your Changeful Hope wares.

And the guy is from Delaware.  Does "The Worst State" ring a bell, TNR?

Well first, Biden recently got himself a more presidential look and cut his hair.  I wondered when I saw him in the press coverage of his arrival in Georgia, if the haircut was a signal or not.

I like the cut of his jib as they once said and I like his no-nonsense approach to speaking, which would be a breath of fresh air, gaffes or not.  Is he perfect, no, but then again, who is?

I have to wonder, though, and I'm willing to throw my $0.50 bet that the VP is not on the short list but may be shockingly out of left fleld.  And no, not Hillary Clinton, she's a deal breaker for me and for Obama I think.

Just awaiting my text message ;-)))

Frequent contributor Jonathan Chiat in these very pages:

"Biden, of course, represents Delaware in the Senate. To me this is an insurmountable taint. Now, I suppose it's possible that Biden secretly opposes the foul political culture of his state but has held his tongue in order to protect his, and his state's, self-interest. But if we are to consider him as a presidential candidate, he must offer some sign that he would represent the rest of America, not just the one loathsome little bloodsucking tick of a state that has nurtured him."

Biden would be outstanding. My only regret is that Biden is not the Presidential candidate and Obama the VP. Biden is the right person for both foreign and domestic policy. If Obama is President, I would sleep better at night knowing that Biden is giving advice.

The Obama as lightweight meme is inane. Obama may be lots of things, but in terms of intellectual depth and accomplishment, in terms of policy statements, and the like, he is the complete opposite of lightweight. It seems that those without a capacity to use words well hear some people use a word and adopt it as if its usage actually means something. But words have meaning. Those referring to Obama as a lightweight clearly have just decided that it's s nifty insult without bothering to think of whether its usage is accurate.

dcat

I well remember Biden's speech at the '04 convention. It was scheduled at a time when the networks were occupied elsewhere, unfortunately, so few even knew he had spoken. His speech was a devastating critique of the Bush admin's f-p worldwide (including Iraq, but Iraq was just a part). He spoke with authority and passion. I had tears in my eyes near the end because Biden had not only inspired me, but convinced and convicted as well.

Biden could effectively eviscerate McCain's blowhard ego and confidence, and embarrass McCain and any running mate of his. That's one thing I definitely feel is needed and feasible - embarrass McCain on his ignorance and unwillingness to stand by his scattershot stands. Bring the man down with his house of cards, embarrass and shame him for his stupidity. Of the latter, there's so much stupidity in McCain ripe for the picking. (you can tell I have little but contempt for the man, ancient hero of a long gone world.)

I suppose I can't really complain, since he would have had my vote had he lasted that long in the primary season.  

Biden Time?  

"Obama had not notified his choice -- or any of those not selected -- of his decision as of late...

The first time I ever saw Joe Biden in action was when he chaired the 1991 Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings that were televised on PBS.  Some of the sessions went deep into the night, and were amazing political theater.  Anyway, what sticks in my memory was a Biden exchange with a young black man named John Doggett who was a friend of CT and allegedly knew something about Thomas' relationship with Anita Hill. Biden let Doggett ramble on (mostly about himself) for 20 minutes or so, until he threw down his reading glasses and savagely barked at Doggett, demanding that he get to the point. It was surreal how quickly Biden went from congenial to enraged. I remember thinking at the time that Joe Biden may have a few screws loose.

I'm not saying that he would be a bad VP choice . . . he has some terrific qualities.   But he reminds me of an open case of dynamite that just needs the right fuse.

Fine, dcat.  Calm yourself.  Obama's not a lightweight.  He's a person of light weight.  His weight is light, albeit not literally.  I mean, we're talking junior welterweight at best.  Naturally, since I think he'll win (campaign: flyweight?  Or is it odd to think McCain should be a roast right now?) I, uh..."hope" I'm wrong.

BIDEN FOR VEEP?....Even Bayh is yesterday's news. All the buzz today is about Joe Biden being Obama's running mate. Would this be a bad choice? For the prosecution we have Jeralyn Merritt, who says he's bad on crime issues. Matt...